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S1-10: Empowering the science educator: Jessica Kesler

Promotional graphic for "science connections podcast" season 1, episode 10, featuring a smiling black woman named Jessica Kesler, with educational icons like a globe and magnifying glass around her.

In the final episode of the season, Eric sits down with his friend and professional development facilitator, Jessica Kesler. Jessica describes her passion for sharing free, high-quality, empathy-centered professional development for K12 educators. Jessica also shares her experience jumping into leadership positions while teaching in Philadelphia. Eric also chats with Jessica about how students often lean on teachers for more than delivering content. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

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Jessica Kesler (00:01):

One student at a time, isn’t gonna bring a million students through the door. But if we focus on their teachers, then they can implement it in their classroom and have this multiplicative effect that can continue on and help us to reach those millions of kids and helping them be prepared for future careers.

Eric Cross (00:19):

Welcome to science connections. I’m your host. Eric Cross. My guest today is Jessica Kessler. Jessica’s director of professional learning at TGR foundation, which is a tiger woods charity. There she creates and leads free stem, professional learning opportunities for educators across the country. Prior to working at TGR, Jessica worked as an elementary, middle and high school science teacher while fulfilling several leadership roles, including science department, chair and principal intern. In this episode, Jessica shares some of her classroom experiences while working in Philadelphia, where she was in classrooms, where her students needed her to be more than just her content. She also addresses how designing professional learning with empathy for teachers in mind creates better experiences for teachers. And now please enjoy my discussion with Jessica Kessler. So let’s, let’s start off with St. Joseph’s chemistry college to the classroom, like your origin story. What led you to ultimately get into the classroom and being successful, even just looking at, at your kinda like your resume or your CV of all of the things that you’ve done. You definitely weren’t idle, but start off with chem. Yeah. Like where did that passion come from?

Jessica Kesler (01:27):

Yeah. So when I was younger, I just had this burning passion to help people. Right. And when you’re young and you think about helping people, you think about doctors, doctors help people. Right. So I had this idea that I wanna be a surgeon. I wanna be a black surgeon. I wanna be a young girl, female Charles drew, and I just wanna go out there and do it. And so my mom is actually an alum of St Joe’s. So I spent a lot of time on campus cuz as she was getting her mini master’s degrees I will visit campus with her often. And so when I applied, I had the scholarships, had everything and I went in ready to be bio ready to be a surgeon. I took my first bio class and I was like, yes, let’s talk about the human body. And let’s get into dissections and sections. And they were like, okay, so a plant so has this. And I was like, Ooh <laugh> I was like, this is not what I was expecting at all. It just felt so detached from the trajectory that I wanted to take. And it just did not feed that passion of helping people in the immediate moment.

Eric Cross (02:31):

Did it, did it feel too abstract?

Jessica Kesler (02:33):

It felt abstract. It felt boring. Okay. And one thing I didn’t want was to be like stuck, bored. Like if I’m not being stimulated in a good way, mm-hmm <affirmative> then it’s not gonna last, but I love science. So I switched over to chemistry cuz I’m like this chemistry is exciting. I’m mixing things together. I’m producing new things. I’m doing extractions. I’m being introduced to machinery that I haven’t seen before. I’m loving it. I’m doing a math. The math is awesome. And so I switched over to chem and I started doing research in the summers and things like that. My research was around water quality in Philadelphia and looking at different natural water sources and comparing them and all those great things. But I was in a lab and the lab had no windows and I was stuck talking to this atomic absorption specter every day.

Jessica Kesler (03:24):

And I hit that, that wall again, where it was like, is this the rest of my life? Like talking to these machines and not having windows and not being able to interact with people. What is this? This can’t be life. And so I was seeking out some new opportunities that said, Hey, I need more money. First of all. So I’m like, I call the financial aid office like every week, like, Hey, what’s out today. What new scholarships do you have? I’m applying for everything. Like it was my goal to not have to pay for much of my education. And so I was talking to them and they’re like, Hey, you’re in science. There’s this awesome opportunity called a noise scholarship where they’ll pay for your last year and your master’s degree. If you go into education mm-hmm <affirmative> and I sat on it and I was like, this makes so much sense to me.

Jessica Kesler (04:12):

I was like, I’ve been literally tutoring my peers and teaching in churches and all this other kind of stuff. My whole life. It makes so much sense. How come nobody ever said this before? <Laugh> and so I applied for the noise scholarship, got in and started, you know, mm-hmm, <affirmative> doing practicums in the classroom as I went through my last year as a chemistry major and my first year for my masters and it just felt so right. And I was like, I can do this. And of course there were a lot of people who told me, no, Josh, you can’t do that. Like these kids will eat you alive. And I’m like I don’t think so. <Laugh> but, but that’s give it a go. And I stepped into the classroom and it, it just felt like, felt like it was always meant to be there.

Eric Cross (04:57):

So you were able to, you were able to make that connection between, I mean, if you’re, if you’re studying chemistry and bio and going into stem, I mean, there’s, there’s an aptitude there, but then you realize that this there’s a road that you could take that leads you into a room with no windows. And you’re just hanging out with machines all day

Jessica Kesler (05:14):

And I’m not helping people. Right. Right. And that was, my passion was like, I’m not helping people sitting in this room. I need to be a person that’s outside telling people about what happens in the room. Right. And how they can get involved and like what’s going on in here. Like that’s, that’s where I can be useful.

Eric Cross (05:28):

When you were, you were in Philly when you were teaching, what were you teaching when you were there?

Jessica Kesler (05:33):

So I started off teaching eighth grade science first job in north Philadelphia, teaching eighth grade science and just a, a funding tangent that first day a student called me a B

Eric Cross (05:44):

Trial by fire

Jessica Kesler (05:45):

Trial by fire called me out in front of like the whole floor. We were outside doing line drills and just was like, I hate you miss Kusa your B. And I was like, oh, this is it. This is it. This is where you stand your ground and you take it or you, you bail out <laugh> and you go back into the lab mm-hmm <affirmative>. And of course at the end of that, that traumatic experience between all the kids, like two months later, she wanted me to adopt her. So like everything comes full circles. Right.

Eric Cross (06:10):

That’s how it is. Right.

Jessica Kesler (06:11):

But I started teaching eighth grade science. There’s not a lot of science teachers at that level who actually have a science background. Most of them have elementary school background. So I’m the only scientist walking into the science classroom and saying, this is how science actually works. And so I ended up taking a lot of onus of science while I was there. Ended up building out the K through eight curriculum for science. I ended up doing like a science strategic plan to submit to the district. I ended up leading out our first couple stem nights and like really leading the stem department and kind of our science department. And this was as like a second, third year teacher <laugh> know, but nobody else had the science mm-hmm, <affirmative> the way that I had the science and the education. So it really opened up a door for me to be able to, to run full steam with all those things.

Eric Cross (07:04):

So MI was it primarily middle school during those, those years that you were there?

Jessica Kesler (07:07):

So there, I started with middle school and I did that purposefully because I was still young and I wanted there to be a good age gap between me and the students. And then I moved up to high school and taught high school chemistry, also taught a couple other different subjects while I was at that school. But primarily high school chemistry. Then I actually took a big leap down and I said, okay. I was going for my second master’s degree in educational leadership. And I was going for my principal cert. And I said, if I’m gonna be a principal of a school, then I need to understand all the levels of education and how they operate, cuz they operate really differently. So I said, I started in middle school, went to high school. I don’t have elementary school experience. In fact, I’d spent a day in a kindergarten classroom and I was like this never again, but I was like, I need to go back down there and I need to figure out how this system works because you know, I never know where I’m gonna land as far as principalship.

Jessica Kesler (08:01):

So I went and taught fourth grade.

Eric Cross (08:03):

How was that experience?

Jessica Kesler (08:05):

So imagine me going from teaching high school, seniors and juniors Uhhuh and like they’re self-sufficient and you know, they’re independent, they’re driving to school and all these things. And then I immediately drop down and go into fourth grade where these kids are crying every five seconds. They still have like a lot of bodily fluids, like there’s noses running and things. And like <laugh>, I was like a fish outta water. I was like, what is this? What’s going on down here. But those kids pour out so much love. And they, you, you become another parent to them. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> your high schoolers know who their parents are. They kind of are finding their place in society, but the little ones, they only know big people as parents, small people as equal. So they see you as another parent. So it taught me a lot about, you know, patience and breaking information down, even smaller. I had to figure out new and inventive ways to teach science and bring it down so far that they would be able to grab onto it and achieve it. And it was a challenge, but at the end it paid off, we were running, we were hitting like great markers for all of our PSSA goals that year. I mean, we were really knocking it out the park

Eric Cross (09:17):

And this backstory leads into how we met and adds to the picture as to why I really want to have you on, because your involvement with TGR, which is where I want to go next for the folks listening. I bet a lot of them have no idea what it’s about, just like I did. And now me learning about TGR foundation and meeting you I would love to make sure that everyone knows about it and what they offer.

Jessica Kesler (09:39):

Absolutely. So TGR foundation, a tiger woods charity was founded by tiger woods and his father with a mission to really introduced them education to students in low income minority populations and prepare them for success in their world and their future careers moving forward. And so was founded in 1996 and went through several changes in iterations since 1996. But eventually opened up its first learning lab, which is in Anaheim, California. And through the learning lab, they opened up these satellite sites. So they basically partner with schools to provide after school education and robotics and wearable electronics and things like that. And they would partner with schools to teach these courses after school, they would pay the teacher, pay for the materials and stuff like that to provide more opportunity for students in different areas. And so that’s how I was introduced to the foundation because while I was teaching high school my good friend and previous manager, Jason Porter shout out to JP Jason Porter used to lead the tiger woods foundation when it was the tiger woods foundation.

Jessica Kesler (10:52):

He used to lead the afterschool program. And when I joined that high school, he said, Jess, you got all this great content, knowledge, all this great enthusiasm, and we wanna get more women into this robotics. We wanna get them engaged in this process of, of stuff. And you will be a great role model to start bringing in more of our female students. And I was like, great, sign me up. And that’s where I started working with the TGR foundation, right after school programs, getting my students into robotics, competitions and clubs, doing different challenges and design challenges. And then after some time, a few years, they actually needed someone to come to the DC area and support the development of professional learning and partnerships here in DC, as they were continuing to expand. And really it came out of the idea that tiger gave this big mission to the organization that he wanted to reach millions of kids.

Jessica Kesler (11:48):

He said millions and everybody said, what millions, what M <laugh>. So the foundation was like, okay, well we can’t reach millions by just tackling one student at a time, right? Not one student at a time, isn’t gonna bring a million people or students through the door. But if we focus on their teachers, mm-hmm <affirmative>, then those teachers not only spend most of their day with these students and learn the basics of their skills with these students. But each one of those teachers has 30 to 150 200 students that they see every day. And that’s how we multiply this effect. So we train the teachers on all the stem competencies and the pedagogical tools and strategies to implement the stem that we’re doing in our learning labs. And then they can implement it in our classroom and have this multiplicative effect that can continue on and help us to reach those millions of kids and helping them be prepared for future careers.

Eric Cross (12:44):

And so D divide the effort, multiply the effects. Exactly. And then when I was exposed to it, this was over zoom. Now, how long has it been going on? Has it always been virtualized or did you do the, were you all doing this before? We all went online

Jessica Kesler (12:57):

Before the pandemic man, the glory days, right before pandemic, it feels like I’m talking about prehistoric times, right? Like back in the dinosaur, like era, like, I don’t know, pre we actually did these workshops in a person. So we would invite people to come to DC, invite teachers in Philadelphia to do a Philly one. We were in New Mexico. We were in Florida. We were, I mean, we were everywhere and this would be a extremely hands on engaging workshops. So not only do we focus on this is the theory and the philosophy behind the pedagogy, but we would also focus on like creating a student experience for the teacher, having the teacher flip into student mode and put on that student hat and actually go through sample lessons, model lessons and activities as the student so that they can feel it. So you can feel if, if you feel confused, your students are gonna feel confused.

Jessica Kesler (13:52):

If you feel like this is challenging, you, your students are gonna feel the challenge. If you are, don’t understand the instructions, your students will understand the instructions. So it gives us a different perspective and it puts us in their shoes. So we can better empathize with them and create more responsive lesson planning. So we flipped them into that student role for that purpose. When COVID hit, we went virtual, but virtual allowed us to reach teachers that we probably would’ve never hit. So it was kind of that blessing and disguise, right? It was like we didn’t keep people as long cuz obviously virtually you’re not, you don’t wanna stare at a screen for eight hours. So we cut it down. We revised it a little bit, but we kept the hands on philosophy and feel of it going by, you know, using materials that they could find at home really modeling what education could look like.

Jessica Kesler (14:41):

Mm-Hmm <affirmative> if you used your Z zoom room to capacity, or if you had these materials and resources or rethought your lesson plans and structures. So we went virtual and not only were we able to hit so many more thirst that first year thirsty educators ready to get, dive into it, ready for some comradery with fellow educators. But we were also able to expand our international network. We were able to get so many international educators through our global work that it was, it was beyond what we had when we were in person. So it really had this skyrocketing effect.

Eric Cross (15:20):

There’s professional learning pathways and then virtual stem studio. Is that right for professional development for like teachers who are listening, are those the two kind of main prongs?

Jessica Kesler (15:30):

Yeah. So a stem studio is basically just one, right? And a pathway is a collection. So we now offer four stem studios, four separate stem studios. The first one is on inquiry mindset. You attended that one area. And it’s really about for teachers who are changing their perspective on what the classroom should look and feel like, especially administrators too. It’s about developing that inquiry mindset. So you understand and you feel, and you practice and you learn the tools that are necessary for inquiry to happen in your classroom. We never promote overhauling your classroom. We’re just saying, add a little bit here and there and see how it impacts your students. The second one is on making inquiry, visible, making inquiry visible is all about making students thinking visible in the moment. What are tools and strategies that you use so that students can illuminate their thinking for themselves, but for you and their peers as well and how we benefit from that.

Jessica Kesler (16:28):

So not only do the students get to see their own thinking as they progress and you get to tell the story of how their minds have evolved, but you, as the teacher get to see, oh, this is where everyone is making the mistake, or this is how this misconception came about. Or this is where I need to target for my next lesson. So it makes you more responsive in the moment. And then the third and fourth one where we’re actually launching for a small group this summer, it won’t be available to the masses until maybe a year or two down the line. We have one small group that we’re just going to test it out with. The third one is about developing your inquiry environment. So thinking not just about your physical space, but thinking about your intellectual space too. So what are the things that you can embed into your physical space and develop in a student’s intellectual space that will help you create a holistic inquiry environment?

Eric Cross (17:22):

So this is this inquiry space, not just physical, but then also the intellectual environment

Jessica Kesler (17:26):

Intellectual. Exactly. And it focuses in on the design process and how we design spaces. Because as a teacher, we take a lot of background in the background onus of de creating these spaces. If you take someone out of an old habit or space and tell them, oh, we are gonna change in your minds and teach inquiry, but put them back in the same environment, they’re gonna be conflicted, right? Their bodies wanna do one thing, their minds wanna do another thing. And they don’t know how to bridge the gap between the two. So this is a really illuminating, like how do you change all the spaces? How do you design a flow in space in your classroom and in your students thinking that allows them to be productive in that inquiry environment. It’s really good stuff

Eric Cross (18:11):

Who creates these experiences for teachers.

Jessica Kesler (18:14):

We do. So me and my teammate, Holly, Dard shout out HD. Holly Dard, we really put our brains together and developed these. So it’s a really a team effort because like Jason Porter, Eric even David Tong when he was with us, really collectively thought about what it is that we wanted educators to experience. And then Holly and I do a lot of the grunt work, but then we really collectively put it all together and make it what it is. So I have a heavy hand and a lot of that. And in fact, inquiry four is all about the entrepreneurial mindset. So oftentimes educators don’t consider themselves entrepreneurs, but if you take a look at what an entrepreneur is and what they do on a regular basis, educators are entrepreneurs, but we are missing an opportunity to use our entrepreneurialship in the classroom to drive for stem competencies in inquiry based practices. And so in, in stem studio, four, we really focus in on how the educator is the entrepreneur of their classroom, but also uses entrepreneurial techniques to tackle issues in their schools, districts, and spheres of influence. So it’s really taking the educator to the next level of their teaching practice through entrepreneurship. This is some deep stuff.

Eric Cross (19:37):

It is, well, this entrepreneurial mindset is, is something that I’ve heard before. And I definitely see the link between even the term teacherpreneur beyond just selling lessons on teachers, pay teachers. <Laugh> it’s way bigger than that,

Jessica Kesler (19:52):

Where entrepreneurs actually in the classroom, not just because we do things on the side to make money. Exactly.

Eric Cross (19:57):

A lot of teachers hear that. They’re like, yeah, I got, you know, I got, got a few jobs going on. Exactly. Yeah. And, and I think one thing we, I should have said this earlier, and I’ll, I’ll say the intro, but these are all free.

Jessica Kesler (20:07):

This is largely sponsored by do OD stem as well. So we have a partnership with D O D stem and they have been driving forth the department of defenses, strategic stem plan for years. And as a part of that, they give us funding in order to provide these opportunities for educators for free. So literally educators don’t have to come with anything. And we are giving you not only the content of our, our lessons and our instruction, but we’re also going give you a chance to earn a free micro credential. So people are spending 12 plus hours with us in a workshop which sounds like a lot of time, but it’s over a series of time and days. But we wanna give you something that means something after that, we wanna give you a micro credential to add to your resume, to show your administrator, to show that you have achieved the next level in your professional learning career.

Jessica Kesler (20:59):

Right? And if you finish the pathway, which is all for, then we give you our TGR foundation certificate that says that you’ve completed so much professional learning in these areas that you are basically a warrior of inquiry that you are ready to go out and really lay inquiry out in new creative ways, not in your CLA just in your classroom, but everywhere you go in your district, in your school. And on top of that, we just offer so many other great free partnership incentives like discovery, education, experience licenses. We’re doing raffles this summer. We’re giving out free a free meal voucher so that you can get some lunch. One of these days we’re offering $50 gift cards so that people can get school supplies. So anything you do with us, and you’re like, man, I really wish I could have this so that I can do that in my classroom. We wanna break down all the barriers that prevent teachers from doing this stuff in their classroom, actively engaging in this stuff. And we give you a free copy of the books that we reference. Again, trying to break down the barriers,

Eric Cross (22:00):

What are some of the things that you’ve noticed kind of being on both sides of science teaching in the classroom, and then in training trends with teachers, things like moments that have been great or, or challenges that you’re noticing teachers experiencing, especially maybe changes in differences from a, from, you know, an outsider’s perspective. Seeing what teachers are experiencing are like, since you’ve been doing PDs for folks.

Jessica Kesler (22:22):

Yeah. So it’s actually really interesting being on both sides of the fence. You know, what I always noticed is that teachers are eager, but they’re tired. They’re wanting to learn, but they can’t take advantage of every opportunity to learn. And especially during COVID time, if you take a look at even all the professional learning that’s happening across the world right now, attendance is going down because teachers are so burnt out this hybrid space, this either we’re in person, but we’re still wearing masks and still social distancing and all this other stuff, or I’m still virtual or I’m virtual some days and I’m in person other days, it’s just wearing our teachers out. And I think we notice that as we see a large numbers of friends and family just start to retire, right? Like people are just like, I don’t know if I can adapt to another change in education.

Jessica Kesler (23:14):

Like education goes through these waves of big changes and it’s hard for everybody to adapt to, but for those who are willing to stick it out and those who are able to stick it out and, and still have that energy and enthusiasm to learn, they come in so hungry for more resources, so hungry to learn more and they still have their why at the top of their minds, as they think about why they do this it’s for the kids it’s to drive this mission is to get more kids excited about this. And they just come in so passionate. So once they come in, once we can get them to come in they stick with us for a really long time. They’re like, what else do you have? What else do you have? What else do you have? But we hear, still hear the common threads of like, do I have time for this?

Jessica Kesler (23:58):

Do I have the funding for this? Do I have the energy for this? Do, will my students understand this? And we are constantly facing that challenge of trying to address those things by, but keeping the excitement going, like we know you don’t have enough time. We’re gonna call it out from the start. I know you don’t have enough time to try to do 29 extra things. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. But my advice is always, but do one thing at a time, start with something small, asking your students a few questions rather than lecturing to them. Doesn’t take a whole lot of extra time, but it gives you so much extra insight. So let’s not work, you know, harder, let’s work smarter. Let’s embed this into our, our work together. And I always say that we’re not asking you to add to your plate. You know, it’s not Thanksgiving where you just pile, keep piling on a plate.

Jessica Kesler (24:47):

It’s it’s a time where you organize the plate. It’s allowing inquiry to restructure your plate so that everything has its place and its time mm-hmm <affirmative> do you wanna leave room so that the educator feels comfortable trying some new initiative? That’s why we encourage admin. We have librarians attend elementary school teachers, administrators, we, and we encourage it because everyone can support the classroom. And if administrators are more in touch with these new practices and tools and strategies, then they can help facilitate the learning. As the teachers are trying new things and coaching them in specific areas. So we really opened the door for some studios, for any and all who are gonna participate in that child’s education, because us all rallying around them as that three-legged stool helps to create that environment and helps support the teacher. The teachers need support, and we’re trying to do our part by providing the resources and the tools, but they need everyone else to.

Eric Cross (25:42):

We don’t always think about it as a way to support, to get support in our classrooms for ourselves. But I agree with you by, by educating vertically up the chain, you know, vice principal, principal, whoever it is, mm-hmm <affirmative> superintendent getting them on boarding and, and educating them to see what’s ex expected. We’ll open up doors and more freedoms for you because now you just have this vertical alignment of folks kind of on the same wave length. Exactly.

Jessica Kesler (26:07):

Yep. And that’s why we love districts. Anaheim union school district is actually one of our partners this year, where they have invited their teachers to participate in the whole pathway because they know how important it is that we practice these tools and strategies. And they want as many educators in the same space going through this at the same time as possible so that we can support each other through it. And so that we don’t feel like islands, oftentimes as educators, we feel like islands we’re in our classroom day in and day out. And we don’t feel like there’s anybody else who’s doing the same things we’re doing and supporting the work that we’re doing. So when we get administrators who support it, it’s magical. It can be magical.

Eric Cross (26:47):

What are some opportunities that are coming up if somebody’s listening and they, they wanna sign up for something, are there things coming up this month or next month or in the summer that they can participate in?

Jessica Kesler (26:55):

Yeah, for sure. So we’ve been doing our monthly workshops. And if you go to our website, so if you actually go to TGR foundation.org and slash stem studio you’ll actually see our summer events already posted, already live for everybody to start engaging in. And again, everything is free. So registration is open and available for everybody to participate. We are offering that first inquiry stem studio inquiry mindset twice the week of June 21st and the week of June 28th, two opportunities for educators to join us for inquiry mindset for the first one. And then also in July, we’re offering the second one making inquiry visible, and that’s the week of July 12th. So again, all free stuff, raffle prizes are available for those who register early and get in there and reserve their seat. It is limited seating. And so, yeah, a bunch of opportunities coming up this summer and guess what all you have to do is sign up and then you get all these free things coming your way. You get to look forward to all this exciting stuff. So TGR foundation.org/studio.

Eric Cross (28:01):

And if folks wanna follow you in your career, your journey.

Jessica Kesler (28:05):

Yeah. I’m on Twitter and LinkedIn, for sure. And it’s Jessica Kessler, K E S L E R one S

Eric Cross (28:12):

I wanna honor your time. And as we close, you’ve been an educator of impact in, in your own classroom. And I know you’re still teaching actively now, and you’ve also made an impact on me and other educators through your professional development. And, and the last question I’d like to end with is who’s the most memorable teacher or learning experience that you had during K eight. When you think about you, your time in school, who was a memorable teacher or a moment that kind of stands out to you and what was it that they did that made them memorable?

Jessica Kesler (28:44):

It was that one teacher who brought me my first T I, 84. You remember when a new calculators came out, I had a teacher give me one amazing, but I think in high school, there was really a turn about where I had miss Caroline and Mr. Canello math and Spanish teacher. So two opposite wings of the, the education spectrum there. But most of all, they listened. They listened to me. I felt seen with those teachers, they supported me. They listened to me, they saw my potential. And they just rallied around me and continued to support me thereafter. Even afterwards, I continued to reach out to those educators. And I think that’s what drives me to be that force for, for my students. And I remember my most memorable heart touching education experience was probably, I had a high school student get interviewed by the newspaper.

Jessica Kesler (29:38):

And they were like, oh, what’s your favorite classes? And what’s your favorite this, and what’s your favorite of that? And he was like, well, I love chemistry, which is what I was teaching. It was like, and I love my after school robotics team. I was leading and I love this and this and this. And he basically listed all the stuff that I was doing that I was teaching and that I was leading in the school. And I was like this one student, literally out of all the classes and experiences he’s experiencing is really just calling out everything that I’m doing. And I feel like it’s because he felt seen, he felt heard. He was like, this person is listening to me. And no matter what space we’re in this teacher is, is there for me. And so I try to be that wherever I go, <laugh>,

Eric Cross (30:16):

It’s amazing how making someone feel seen and, and making them feel important and heard, and, and being present for them. All of a sudden opens up their interests into the subjects that you’re teaching. Thank you for, for making time for serving our kids for serving teachers during a hard time, and for making PD one, being part of an organization that made it free and serve teachers, but also making PD fun and enthusiastic. I think that was one of the things in addition to the empathy that you led with, but also your enthusiasm and passion was something that really resonated with me. And it made our time together. Feel like something that was, was making me a better teacher for my kids. And so, thanks for making time for us tonight. Oh,

Jessica Kesler (30:53):

Bless face.

Eric Cross (30:57):

Thanks so much for joining me and Jessica today. If you have any great lessons or ways that you connect with students, please email us@stemamplifycom.wpengine.com. That’s S TM amplifycom.wpengine.com. And please remember to support the podcast by clicking subscribe, wherever you listen to podcasts, you can also hear more about the podcast in our Facebook group, science connections, the community until next time.

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What Jessica Kesler says about science

“One student at a time isn’t gonna bring a million students through the door. But if we focus on their teachers, then they can reach those millions of kids and help them be prepared for future careers. ”

– Jessica Kesler

Director of Professional Learning, TGR Foundation

Meet the guest

In the final episode of the season, Eric sits down with his friend and professional development facilitator, Jessica Kesler. Jessica describes her passion for sharing free, high-quality, empathy-centered professional development for K12 educators. Jessica also shares her experience jumping into leadership positions while teaching in Philadelphia. Eric also chats with Jessica about how students often lean on teachers for more than delivering content.

Person with glasses smiling, wearing a black headwrap and earrings, outdoors with trees and sunlight in the background.

About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

You might also like:

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Check out the TGR Foundation!

Find free professional development with TGR!

Two boys wearing safety glasses sit at a table. One holds a cup of liquid and gestures, while the other holds a pencil and notebook, engaged in discussion.

Earn CE Credit!

Watch the recording: Supporting Student-To-Student Discourse in Science (And Bey…

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Free on-demand PD

Weaving Literacy Instruction Into the Science Classroom to Accelerate Learning

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Description of Site Services; Acceptance of Terms of Use

Welcome to www.amplify.com (together with any successor sites and the Site Services and Company Content (each as defined below), in whole and in part, the “Site”). The Site is operated by Amplify Education, Inc. (“Company” or “we”). The services that Company makes available on or through the Site include education-related articles, information and instructional services, purchasing functionality, support chat functionality and any other features, content, services, functionality and applications offered from time to time by Company on or through the Site (collectively, “Site Services”).

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All products and services described or depicted on the Site, and all related features, content, specifications and prices, are subject to change at any time without notice. Certain weights, measures and similar descriptions are approximate and are provided for convenience purposes only. Packaging may vary from that shown. We make reasonable efforts to accurately display the attributes of our products, including the applicable colors; however, the actual color you see will depend on your computer system, and we cannot guarantee that your computer will accurately display such colors. The inclusion of any product or service on the Site at a particular time does not imply or warrant that such product or service will be available at any time. Occasionally, the manufacture or distribution of a certain product or service may be delayed for a number of reasons. In such event, we will make reasonable efforts to notify you of the delay and keep you informed of the revised delivery schedule. By placing an order, you represent that the products and services ordered will be used only in a lawful manner. All DVDs and similar products are sold for private, non-commercial home use (where no admission fee is charged), non-public performance, or classroom or instructional use only, and may not be duplicated.

Return and exchange policy

Unless otherwise specified in the terms associated with a particular product, you may return or exchange any product purchased through the Site within fourteen (14) days of receipt, by calling our customer service hotline, 1–800–823–1969, in the event that the purchased product is defective or you received the wrong product. Except for the foregoing, you may not return, cancel or exchange any product or service. Certain jurisdictions may provide additional statutory rights. Nothing herein is meant to limit your return or cancellation rights under local law. In the event that a return or exchange is due to an incorrect order or faulty product, we will be responsible for the shipping costs associated with such return. We will ship a replacement product upon receiving your defective or incorrect product and verifying the reason for the return or exchange.

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Chemicals, agricultural materials, and other hazardous materials

Certain products made available through the Site may include chemicals, agricultural materials or other material that may be subject to regulations or restrictions with respect to import or export, or to whom we may sell such material or where or how such material may be used. It is your responsibility to read and abide by all warning notices that accompany any products that you purchase. In addition, we reserve the right to request additional information from you, verify your identity, limit sales to certified educational or research institutions, or cancel or delay your order if required by law or if we believe it is necessary or advisable. Due to special shipping and handling requirements, freight companies routinely impose a surcharge on each package of hazardous material shipped. In such event, we will add such surcharge to your order.

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You may have the ability to create an account on or through the Site (an “Account”). If you submit registration information to create an Account, you represent and warrant that all information submitted to Company in connection with such registration is complete and accurate, and that you will update such information if it changes. If you create an Account, you are responsible for all use of your Account, and for maintaining the confidentiality of the information used to access your Account (including user name and password). You agree not to share your user name or password with anyone, or use anyone else’s Account at any time. You agree to notify Company immediately if you suspect any unauthorized use of, or access to, your Account (including your user name and password). You acknowledge that the reuse of your password in connection with accounts on other websites increases the risk that the security of your Account may be compromised.

The Site may make available, or third parties may provide, links to other websites, applications, resources, advertisements, Content or other products or services created, hosted or made available by third parties (“Third Party Services”), and such third party may use other third parties to provide portions of the Third Party Service to you, such as technology, development or payment services. When you access or use a Third Party Service, you are interacting with the applicable third party, not with Company, and you do so at your own risk. Company is not responsible for and makes no warranties, express or implied, as to the Third Party Services or the providers of such Third Party Services (including the accuracy or completeness of the information provided by such Third Party Service or the privacy practices of any third party). Inclusion of any Third Party Service or a link thereto on the Site does not imply approval or endorsement of such Third Party Service. Company is not responsible or liable for the content or practices of any Third Party Service or third party, even if such Third Party Service links to or is linked by the Site, and even if such Third Party Service is operated by an affiliate of Company or a company otherwise connected with us or the Site

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Unless we expressly agree otherwise in writing, if you provide us with any ideas, proposals, suggestions or materials (“Feedback”), whether related to the Site or otherwise, you hereby acknowledge and agree that (a) your provision of any Input is gratuitous, unsolicited and without restriction and does not place Company under any fiduciary or other obligation; and (b) any Feedback is not confidential and Company has no confidentiality obligations with respect to such Feedback.. You hereby grant to us a world-wide, royalty-free, fully paid-up, exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, transferable and fully sublicensable (through multiple tiers) license, without additional consideration to you or any third party, to reproduce, distribute, perform and display (publicly or otherwise), adapt, modify and otherwise use and exploit such Feedback, in any format or media now known or hereafter developed, and you hereby represent and warrant that you have all necessary rights to grant the foregoing license. We may use Feedback for any purpose whatsoever without permission or notice, compensation or attribution to you or any third party. You are and remain responsible and liable for the content of any Feedback.

Privacy

Please review the Privacy Policy for the Site, available at http://www.amplify.com/privacy, to learn about our information collection, usage and disclosures practices with respect to information collected by us through the Site. Please note that certain products or services made available by us, other than the Site, may be subject to different privacy policies. In addition, the Site’s Privacy Policy does not address, and we are not responsible or liable for, the information collection, usage and disclosures practices of any third party or Third Party Service.

Disclaimers

THE SITE, USER CONTENT, THIRD PARTY SERVICES, AND ALL PRODUCTS AND SERVICES SOLD THROUGH THE SITE (COLLECTIVELY, THE “SITE PRODUCTS”) ARE MADE AVAILABLE “AS-IS” AND “AS AVAILABLE” AND COMPANY DOES NOT GUARANTEE OR PROMISE ANY SPECIFIC RESULTS FROM USE OF THE SITE PRODUCTS. COMPANY AND ITS AFFILIATES EXPRESSLY DISCLAIM ANY WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. IN PARTICULAR, COMPANY AND ITS AFFILIATES MAKE NO WARRANTY THAT THE SITE OR USER CONTENT OR THIRD PARTY SERVICES, OR YOUR ACCESS TO OR USE THEREOF, WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED, TIMELY, SECURE, ERROR-FREE, ACCURATE OR RELIABLE. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL WE BE LIABLE FOR ANY CONSEQUENCES OF ANY UNAUTHORIZED USE OF THE SITE PRODUCTS THAT VIOLATES ANY APPLICABLE LAW OR REGULATION. CERTAIN STATE LAWS DO NOT ALLOW LIMITATIONS ON IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF CERTAIN DAMAGES. IF THESE LAWS APPLY TO YOU, SOME OR ALL OF THE ABOVE DISCLAIMERS, EXCLUSIONS, OR LIMITATIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU, AND YOU MIGHT HAVE ADDITIONAL RIGHTS.

Under no circumstances will Company or its affiliates be responsible for any loss or damage, including property damage, personal injury or death, resulting from use of the Site, Products, problems or technical malfunction in connection with use of the Site, Products, attendance at any Company event or the conduct of any Site users, whether online or offline. Your use of the Site, Products is solely your responsibility and at your own risk. The User Content and Third Party Services do not necessarily reflect the opinions or policies of Company or its affiliates.

Limitations on liability

IN NO EVENT WILL COMPANY OR ITS AFFILIATES BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, EXEMPLARY, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOST PROFIT DAMAGES, ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE SITE PRODUCTS, EVEN IF COMPANY OR ONE OF ITS AFFILIATES HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY CONTAINED HEREIN, THE TOTAL LIABILITY OF COMPANY AND ITS AFFILIATES TO YOU FOR ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER AND REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF THE ACTION, WILL AT ALL TIMES BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT PAID, IF ANY, BY YOU TO COMPANY FOR THE SITE PRODUCTS.

Indemnity

You agree to indemnify and hold harmless Company, its affiliates, subcontractors and other partners, and each of their respective officers, agents, partners and employees, from any losses, costs, expenses (including reasonable attorneys’ fees), liabilities, claims or demands, due to or arising out of your use of the Site, your breach or alleged breach of this Agreement, your violation or alleged violation of any rights of another, or any Content that you post or otherwise submit on, through or in connection with the Site.

Termination

This Agreement remains in full force and effect while you access or use the Site. If you create an Account, you may terminate your Account at any time, for any reason, by contacting us at general@amplify.com. Company may terminate or suspend your Account and/or your access to or use of the Site at any time, for any or no reason, with or without prior notice or explanation, and without liability. Upon any such suspension or termination, your right to access and use the Site will immediately cease, and Company may immediately deactivate or delete your Account and all files and other information associated with it, and/or bar any further access to such files and other information. Company shall not be liable to you or any third party for any suspension or termination of your Account or of access to or use of the Site or any such files or other information, and shall not be required to make such files and other information available to you after any such suspension or termination. Sections 2, 5, 13, 17, 18, 19, 22, and 26 shall survive any expiration or termination of this Agreement.

U.S. export controls

All software made available in connection with the Site (“Software”) may be subject to United States export controls. No Software may be downloaded from or through the Site or otherwise exported or re-exported in violation of U.S. export laws.

Governing law

The terms of this Agreement are governed by the laws of the State of New York, U.S.A., without regard to its conflicts of law provisions, and regardless of your location.

Arbitration

EXCEPT FOR DISPUTES THAT QUALIFY FOR SMALL CLAIMS COURT, ALL DISPUTES ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO THIS AGREEMENT, WHETHER BASED IN CONTRACT, TORT, STATUTE, FRAUD, MISREPRESENTATION OR ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY, WILL BE RESOLVED THROUGH FINAL AND BINDING ARBITRATION BEFORE A NEUTRAL ARBITRATOR INSTEAD OF IN A COURT BY A JUDGE OR JURY, AND YOU AGREE THAT COMPANY AND YOU ARE EACH WAIVING THE RIGHT TO TRIAL BY A JURY. YOU AGREE THAT ANY ARBITRATION UNDER THIS AGREEMENT WILL TAKE PLACE ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS; CLASS ARBITRATIONS AND CLASS ACTIONS ARE NOT PERMITTED AND YOU ARE AGREEING TO GIVE UP THE ABILITY TO PARTICIPATE IN A CLASS ACTION.

Arbitration procedure

Any arbitration under Section 23 above will be administered by the American Arbitration Association under its Commercial Arbitration Rules and Supplementary Procedures for Consumer-Related Disputes (“Supplementary Procedures”), as amended by this Agreement. The Supplementary Procedures are available online at http://www.adr.org/aaa/ShowPDF?doc=ADRSTG_015820. The arbitrator will conduct hearings, if any, by teleconference or videoconference, rather than by personal appearances, unless the arbitrator determines upon request by you or by us that an in-person hearing is appropriate. Any in-person appearances will be held at a location which is reasonably convenient to both parties with due consideration of their ability to travel and other pertinent circumstances. If the parties are unable to agree on a location, such determination should be made by the AAA or by the arbitrator. The arbitrator’s decision will follow the terms of this Agreement and will be final and binding. The arbitrator will have authority to award temporary, interim or permanent injunctive relief or relief providing for specific performance of this Agreement, but only to the extent necessary to provide relief warranted by the individual claim before the arbitrator. The award rendered by the arbitrator may be confirmed and enforced in any court having jurisdiction thereof. Notwithstanding any of the foregoing, nothing in this Agreement will preclude you from bringing issues to the attention of federal, state, or local agencies, and, if the law allows, they can seek relief against us for you.

Employment opportunities

Company may, from time to time, post Company employment opportunities on the Site and/or invite users to submit resumes to Company. If you choose to submit your name, contact information, resume and/or other personal information to Company in response to such employment listings, you are authorizing Company to use this information for all lawful and legitimate hiring, employment and other business purposes. Company also reserves the right, at its discretion, to forward such information to Company’s affiliates for their legitimate business purposes. Nothing in this Agreement or contained on the Site will constitute a promise by Company to review any such information, or to contact, interview, hire or employ any individual who submits such information.

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 (“DMCA”) provides recourse for copyright owners who believe that material appearing on the Internet infringes their rights under U.S. copyright law. If you believe that any material residing on or linked to from the Site infringes your copyright, please send (or have your agent send) to Company’s Copyright Agent a notification of claimed infringement with all of the following information: (a) identification of the copyrighted work claimed to have been infringed, or, if multiple copyrighted works are covered by a single notification, a representative list of such works; (b) identification of the claimed infringing material and information reasonably sufficient to permit us to locate the material on the Site (such as the URL(s) of the claimed infringing material); (c) information reasonably sufficient to permit us to contact you, such as an address, telephone number, and, if available, an e-mail address; (d) a statement by you that you have a good-faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, the copyright owner’s agent or the law; (e) a statement by you that the above information in your notification is accurate and a statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that you are the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed or are authorized to act on such owner’s behalf; and (f) your physical or electronic signature. Company’s Copyright Agent for notification of claimed infringement can be reached as follows: Copyright Agent, Amplify Education, Inc., 55 Washington Street, Brooklyn, NY 11201; Facsimile: 212-796-2311; Attn: Legal. Company’s Copyright Agent for notification of claimed infringement can also be reached electronically at: legal@amplify.com. Company reserves the right to terminate infringers’ and suspected infringers’ Accounts or their access to or use of the Site.

Notice for California residents

Under California Civil Code Section 1789.3, California users are entitled to the following consumer rights notice: If you have a question or complaint regarding the Site, please contact us by writing to Amplify Education, Inc., 55 Washington Street, Brooklyn, NY 11201 or by calling us at 212–213–8177 or sending a fax to 212–796–2311. California residents may reach the Complaint Assistance Unit of the Division of Consumer Services of the California Department of Consumer Affairs by mail at 1625 North Market Blvd., Sacramento, CA 95834, or by telephone at (916) 445–1254 or (800) 952–5210.

Other terms

This Agreement does not, and shall not be construed to, create any partnership, joint venture, employer-employee, agency or franchisor-franchisee relationship between you and Company. You may not assign, transfer or sublicense any or all of your rights or obligations under this Agreement without our express prior written consent. We may assign, transfer or sublicense any or all of our rights or obligations under this Agreement without restriction. The failure of Company to exercise or enforce any right or provision of this Agreement will not operate as a waiver of such right or provision. The Section titles in this Agreement are for convenience only and have no legal or contractual effect. References to and mentions of the word “include,” “includes,” “including,” or “e.g.” will mean “including, without limitation.” References to “discretion” will mean “sole discretion.” This Agreement operates to the fullest extent permissible by law. If any provision of this Agreement is unlawful, void or unenforceable, that provision is deemed severable from this Agreement and does not affect the validity or enforceability of any remaining provisions. Without limitation, you agree that a printed version of this Agreement and of any notice given in electronic form shall be admissible in judicial or administrative proceedings based upon or relating to this Agreement to the same extent and subject to the same conditions as other business documents and records originally generated and maintained in printed form. Company will not be responsible for failures to fulfill any obligations due to causes beyond its control.

Please contact us at legal@amplify.com with any questions regarding this Agreement.

S2-05: Moving students forward with project-based learning

A promotional image for the podcast "Science Connections" featuring guest Janis Lodge and the topic "Moving students forward with project-based learning." Season 2, Episode 5.

In this episode, Eric Cross sits with K–5 educator Janis Lodge to chat about building on her own science curriculum to create meaningful project-based learning experiences. Janis shares her work teaching Gifted and Talented Education (GATE), and how to use those practices to help accelerate the learning of all students. Eric and Janis also talk about making time for science within K–5 classrooms. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPT

Janis Lodge (00:00):
To me, the reward of having those kids feel like they accomplished something and the way that they can take ownership of it and go in so many different directions, I cannot take that away from them. That’s such an opportunity that if I have the means to do it, I have to just take it and run with it.

Eric Cross (00:18):
Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. My guest today is Janis Lodge. Janis is a third-grade teacher in Orange County, California, with a specialization in gifted and talented education. Recently, Janis was awarded the Orange County Council for the Gifted and Talented Education Classroom grant. This grant funds a project that provides an extension to her third-grade science unit about environments and survival. Through this project, students will think like a biomimicry engineer as they design a robot that is inspired by an innovation found in nature. In this episode, we discuss how she uses interdisciplinary teaching practices to make time for science learning; why gifted and talented education strategies can benefit all students; and her process for creating a problem-based lesson that ultimately earned her a grant for her classroom. And now, please enjoy my conversation with Janis Lodge. One, welcome! Thanks for being here.

Janis Lodge (01:14):
Of course, I am happy to do it. I’m excited for the opportunity.

Eric Cross (01:17):
Of course! Yeah. Elementary school teachers in science, I feel like there’s so many things to have conversations about. And some of the things that you’ve really focused on, I think, are, really, really important. But I wanna start off with your journey of you becoming a teacher in the classroom. And so, would you kind of give your background, your origin story? How did you end up as a third-grade teacher?

Janis Lodge (01:37):
Well, my story is definitely not a traditional story. Before I was a teacher, I was actually living in Maui, Hawaii. I moved there right after college. I went to Chico State in Northern California. And I got a degree in graphic design. And after I graduated, well, I should give a little bit of a backstory. My last summer before graduating, I spent the whole summer in Maui and I just fell in love with it. So when I graduated, I decided instead of applying for jobs in Northern California, I’m just gonna put some resumes out in Maui and see if I can get a job. And I did. I ended up getting a job doing graphic design and marketing for a kite surf company out there. And I ended up just staying for seven years on the island. And after about seven years, I kind of got a little bit of island fever and decided I wanted to come back to California. I wasn’t sure exactly what I wanted to do, but I just had this calling that I need to do something a little more fulfilling with my life. And I started thinking about different ideas and dreams I had. And I actually started thinking about when I was younger, right? I had this dream. If you were to ask me when I was 10 years old what I wanted to be when I grow up, it would be elementary school teacher.

Eric Cross (02:48):
Really?

Janis Lodge (02:48):
Believe it or not. When I was younger, I transformed my bedroom into a classroom. My stuffed animals were my students. I just thought I’m gonna be the next best teacher ever. And you know, as I went through life and kind of went in different directions, I kind of lost sight of that dream a little bit. But for some reason, when I decided to change careers, I just remembered that. And so I just decided to go get my teaching credential and see if it worked out. And it was probably the best decision I made. I feel like everything just fell perfectly into place. I ended up getting a job at an amazing school, and now, five years later, I’m a third grade teacher.

Eric Cross (03:28):
So one of the questions I have to ask, and talking to elementary school teachers, this comes up a lot: How do you make time for science as an elementary school teacher who’s teaching everything? And let me kind of premise this with, at least for those of us in California, and I’m sure the rest of the states too, but we know this; There’s kind of this pressure with pacing and then even, depending on what school you’re at, math and English tend to get the bulk of things. And maybe there’s this perception also of like, well, I gotta teach math and English, and sometimes science gets put to the back burner for different reasons.

Janis Lodge (03:57):
Well, you’re exactly right. The beginning of the year, we were provided with a pacing from the district. And you know, they try to keep us on track, saying, “You should be starting Unit 2 at this time.” But other than that, there’s really no specific guidelines of how many days we’re supposed to be teaching or for how long. But one kind of secret that I’ve discovered is that I can weave science into the other subjects, specifically with language arts. So quite often what I do is I take a look at the language arts standard, and if it’s identifying the key details and the main idea, well I can do that with the science books used from the curriculum. So I’ll just pull those readers and we’ll do the exact same skill, start with the same standard, but we’ll use the content from science. By doing that, we call that kind of like interdisciplinary study. And the students really enjoy that more, too, because they’re using the same skills but they’re diving deeper into the content.

Eric Cross (04:54):
Right.

Janis Lodge (04:55):
And so also that helps build the background knowledge. So then when it comes to time where, if I want to do a science lab or a science investigation, now they already have that background knowledge ’cause we already dove deep into the reading and they can apply that pretty quickly right away into their lab or whatever activity they’re doing.

Eric Cross (05:12):
Can you give an example maybe of how you might pull out something that might be a skill that you’re trying to develop, maybe in an English content, but you would pull that out in a science lesson, maybe? What would you do?

Janis Lodge (05:25):
We’re actually doing that right now. So we’re in our second unit of science and they’re studying inheritance and traits and they’re looking at different organisms to see how they have adaptations to help them survive in their environment. So coincidentally part of the literacy skills is to look at multiple sources, do research, and summarize and make analysis of what they’re reading. And so we have different varied resources. I have websites; I have books, ebooks, videos, and pictures. And they’re choosing which four sources they want to use. And then, then they’re coming up with a summary at the end and then putting together a Google Slides presentation based on whatever organism that they chose.

Eric Cross (06:05):
Did you have a science background before becoming an elementary school teacher?

Janis Lodge (06:11):
Um, none. Besides what I, you know, took in high school and college.

Eric Cross (06:16):
Did you find it easy to kind of lean into the science, or was it something you just kind of jumped into and said, “All right, I’m gonna get after it”?

Janis Lodge (06:23):
What’s interesting is if, you know, throughout my education, my favorite subjects were English and reading and writing and art. And quite honestly, science wasn’t my favorite subject. But I think because of that, that inspires me to come up with creative ways of presenting the information to them and making it exciting and engaging for them, because I don’t want them to feel that way. I want them to be excited about all subjects. And I think that’s the beauty of combining the different subjects like I mentioned before. Like I say, you know, “What would a scholar do? Think like a wildlife biologist. And like with my project, think like a biomimicry engineer.” And so it kind of shifts their thinking. Like, it’s not just, “Oh, we have to study science.” It’s like, “No, you are the scientist; you are a meteorologist; or you are an author. How would an author write about this? How would an illustrator capture this in a photo or a comic strip?” And so, when you really combine those disciplines, you can take it to another level. So even if science isn’t their favorite subject, like maybe it wasn’t for me growing up, they can still take something they’re passionate about and apply the science content to it and they really resonate with them.

Eric Cross (07:37):
You leaned into your strengths. Which are more like, coming into it, you had all these kind of creative strengths. You have that background as a graphics designer. You were into the arts. But then with those strengths, did that kinda give you more confidence to dive into the science work, because you approached it from your assets that you were already coming to the table with?

Janis Lodge (07:55):
Yeah.You said it perfectly. If you look at it from a different lens, there’s all these different ways you can approach science.

Eric Cross (07:59):
I find it in my own science class, too. We’re all teaching the same standards. But how I approach it is through Eric Cross’s kind of personality and understanding and my angle, and another teacher might do it a different way. But we’re all leading to the same destination.

Janis Lodge (08:14):
Exactly.

Eric Cross (08:15):
That kind of leads me to my next question, and this is having to do with the project that you just alluded to. The biomimicry project. So you did a biomimicry project. Would you consider that like a project based-learning assignment?

Janis Lodge (08:26):
Well, this will be the third year that I’ve taught this unit. And when I wrapped it up last year, it’s through the Amplify Science program, and they do a wonderful job of having a lot of investigations and really thinking like a biomimicry engineer. But the final part of the unit was to design a robot inspired by a giraffe, to eliminate invasive plants in a particular environment. And the project part of it at the end was to create a model using Popsicle sticks and pipe cleaners. And then the other part of it was a digital simulation where they would put in different shape structures of teeth, and kind of reconfigure the shape of the mouth. And then they’d put in what they think is effective, and then the computer would say, oh, you’re 98% successful or 70% successful. And I remember at the end of it the students were like, “OK, well when do we make the robots?” And I thought, “Well, we’re just doing the simulation, or we’re just doing this model out of Popsicle sticks; we’re not actually gonna make a robot.” And they just seemed so disappointed. And that’s kind of how the wheels started turning my head like, “Well, what if they actually could make a robot? The only thing stopping me is I don’t have the materials to do it.” So, shortly after that unit wrapped up, coincidentally I saw the email about this grant opportunity that was being offered through the Orange County Council for Gifted Education. And they said, If you have a project that you wanna get funded that would promote GATE strategies within the classroom, then you can submit this proposal. So that’s how the ball got rolling for that proposal. And I researched different robotics kits and different companies and I found one that was really user-friendly for third graders, and not so difficult for me to learn as well.

Eric Cross (10:10):
You’re a risk taker. Like, I’m already seeing this as I’m talking to you. Is that just who you are or do you have a network? Like what keeps you taking these risks?

Janis Lodge (10:18):
I don’t really consider it a risk, because it’s exciting for me. Like I said, I don’t know that much about robotics, but the idea of learning more and then teaching that to my students is exciting. And you know, there was a little bit of risk ’cause I’m deviating a little bit from the curriculum, from the standard lesson, but to me, the reward of having those kids feel like they accomplished something, and the way that they can take ownership of it and go in so many different directions, and on top of that, develop coding skills and computer science skills and robotic skills, to me it was just like I cannot take that away from them. That’s such an opportunity that if I have the means to do it, I have to just take it and run with it. So I think just being inspired by the potential outcomes of what could happen is what made me take that risk.

Eric Cross (11:05):
Did you just kind of create this from scratch? Did you work with a team of people? How did you come to the point where you were ready to present this for the grant?

Janis Lodge (11:12):
Pretty much from scratch. Like I said, the Amplify unit, it does teach them about robotics that were inspired by nature. So some of the materials that they read, and there’s some videos that show really great examples. There’s like a robotic arm that was inspired by an elephant trunk. There’s a book that shows what this field is, biomimicry engineer, they actually show like what they do in that field. And I thought this is a perfect way to apply it because the curriculum’s already pretty much set it up for me; now I just have to add this one final component to it. And essentially it becomes project-based learning at that point, because they’re taking their knowledge and their skills that they’ve learned up to that point. Even the unit that we’re doing doing right now is building up to it. So it’s kind of that final—instead of giving them a test at the end and saying, “OK, tell me what you learned about inheritance and traits and environments,” they can actually take that knowledge and apply it to an innovation or creation that comes out of their own mind, which is so much more powerful.

Eric Cross (12:11):
Do they connect to any other learning goals as they’re doing these projects?

Janis Lodge (12:15):
Well, I think first and foremost, the 21st century skills that from day one I tell them, the four Cs: collaboration, creativity, communication, and critical thinking. All of those are woven in through this lesson. From the beginning, we talked about the whole engineering design process. So from the beginning, they start with a question and oftentimes that actually can be the hardest for them to think about, “What’s a scientific question or a problem that I wanna solve?” If they’re passionate about, maybe, a sport or the environment or something within their school, I go, “There it is. OK, that’s the problem. How can you design something inspired by nature to solve that problem?” And then, from there they go into the planning and the designing and the testing and then the improving. So going through that engineering design process, I think, is what really makes them feel like they are the engineer going through this. And they can make mistakes. They can take risks. A lot of my students I’ve found are afraid to take risks. They wanna make sure they succeed. And they need that challenge to know that if they do fail, that’s OK. We can just revisit this. We can test it. We can look at it in a different way.

Eric Cross (13:27):
You maybe wonder about, how do you assess something like this?

Janis Lodge (13:30):
I think that’s where all those stages along the way are important. Because I wanna make sure that they have a plan and that it’s based on the knowledge that they’ve gained in the unit. I think one of the other things about project-based learning is the final product of how they demonstrate their mastery. And in my classroom I oftentimes give them a choice of how they’re gonna present that to me. So maybe they’re going to write it out like an essay. Maybe they’re gonna create a Google slide. Maybe they’re gonna make a video. Maybe they’re going to—obviously in this part they will have the model, but they’ll have to have some way to explain it to me. And I think giving them that choice gives them the opportunity to show it in the way that’s meaningful to them.

Eric Cross (14:14):
And are you using like a rubric when you’re grading these assignments? Or, how do you actually grade it?

Janis Lodge (14:20):
Yes. So we have a rubric that’s provided to us for the written component that all the students will do at the end. But I can take that same rubric and see if they’ve applied that to the project. So even the verbiage wouldn’t really need to change. I think it’s still important that the students are able to demonstrate this in written form and so all of them will still complete that written component, but to also give them the opportunity to show that in the modality of their choice. I think is really important too.

Eric Cross (14:48):
Right. And you have some students that feel much more comfortable being able to present orally versus—

Janis Lodge (14:53):
Exactly.

Eric Cross (14:53):
—versus writing versus maybe doing a video. I mean, we see that in middle school and in high school too. Students show their knowledge or their understanding of a topic depending on the medium in different ways, and some better than others. Some may find that they can communicate it a lot better orally, but when pen goes to paper or fingers go to keyboard, you might grade it completely different, ’cause they’re not able to transfer what’s in their mind into writing. And the way you’re doing it, and giving that student choice, they probably have so much more buy-in, I’d imagine, because they get to pick what they get to do.

Janis Lodge (15:21):
Right.

Eric Cross (15:22):
You said something earlier and I wanna come back to it. So you mentioned GATE, and GATE is not something that I hear a lot in my world, but it was something I heard a lot when I was in school. There were kind of all of these perceptions and ideas about GATE. You’re a GATE teacher, correct?

Janis Lodge (15:38):
Right.

Eric Cross (15:39):
What is GATE, and what is it like being a GATE teacher? What are the misconceptions, if any, that you might have heard or come across?

Janis Lodge (15:46):
Well, so GATE stands for Gifted and Talented Education. And first and foremost, I think a misconception is that we’re just kind of doing whatever we want; we come up with our own lessons and teach a totally different curriculum. Which is definitely a myth. Because we start with the exact same standards as any other third grade class that you’d walk into. That’s definitely where we start. But I think in addition to the standards, we also implement what are called GATE standards: So they’re Depth, Complexity, Acceleration, and Novelty. And there’s a lot of tools that we use in the classroom, different strategies. You’ll see things like the prompts of Depth and Complexity. We’ll use things like “think like a disciplinarian”; I’m doing “think like a biomimicry engineer.” But really, all they are are just thinking tools and strategies to elevate students thinking and kind of go below that surface level of the content to dive deeper. It also provides opportunities for acceleration. So for example, our last science unit, it was on magnetic force, and there was a handful of students that just grasped the concepts right away, and they’re ready for something else. They’re ready for more rigor. They need some challenge. And so at that point I can kind of pull that group aside and provide some differentiation for them. And I said, “OK, well, you understand the concept of magnetic force, balanced forces. So now what I want you to do is think about something that you’re really passionate about, and how could you use magnetic force somewhere in that field—again to solve a problem, problem-based learning—and present it to me?” So they create this form, it’s like a “think like a disciplinarian” frame, and one of them was “think like a hockey player.” And he’s trying to think of a way that he can incorporate magnetic force. Anyway, I could go on and on. But basically it’s finding what these students’ passions are. And I do that with all my students. And I should probably preface this by saying that even though these are standards that I implement in my classroom because it’s a GATE classroom, these are practices and tools that can be applied to any learner, at any age. And they really just enrich the education for all students.

Eric Cross (18:02):
So your classroom is, is a mixed classroom. There’s GATE students and then general—

Janis Lodge (18:05):
Right.

Eric Cross (18:07):
—students, non-GATE students, in the same class. It’s interesting because I imagine GATE is kind of scaffolding up to a higher level, but then, you also said something that I’ve noticed when I’m creating scaffolds for my students to support them, who may not be at a grade level, maybe in reading or literacy or math, those same scaffolds can help all students.

Janis Lodge (18:27):
So yeah, I don’t just go, “OK, you’re my GATE students; I’m gonna use these practices on you.” I use it for the whole class. But I’m also surprised by having that mix of these different learning styles. A lot of times students are inspired by other students, or, you know, we have this big thing about one of the prompts is Multiple Perspectives. I try to do that as much as I can, because students are inspired by the ideas of their peers. And quite often, if they hear it from a peer, it could be exactly what I just said, but they heard their student say it in a different way and it just clicks and they’re like, “Wow, I get that.”

Eric Cross (19:00):
I think a lot of teachers struggle or, or maybe feel ill-equipped, to support higher-level students. Did you get trained to be a GATE teacher? First lemme ask that question: Did you get special training for this?

Janis Lodge (19:13):
Yes. I went through a course, I think it was like a six-week certification course, through my district.

Eric Cross (19:19):
OK, so you got a special training, which—I’ve been in the classroom for nine years; I teach at a university as an adjunct professor; but I’ve never been trained on teaching gifted or accelerated students. And I’m kind of wondering now, like, do you feel like it made you a better teacher?

Janis Lodge (19:33):
Absolutely.

Eric Cross (19:34):
And if so, how do I get to do this?

Janis Lodge (19:36):
Well, it’s through the county. I mean, anybody can get trained and certified how to teach this way. But, just like you said, I think coming out of that, my eyes were just open, and my biggest takeaway is that these practices, even though they are designed for gifted and talented, it really kind of reshaped my thinking about how I, number one, present material to the students, that I’m doing it in an engaging way, and I’m not just lecturing at them; there’s opportunities for them to collaborate and communicate and use multiple resources. So, you know, how I’m teaching has changed. And then also, how I’m providing opportunities for them to demonstrate their learning. And a lot of that is project-based learning, because once they have the knowledge and skills they need to do something with it. I mean, that’s really the true definition of innovation, is taking the skills or taking something that you’ve learned, and now go with it. Run with it.

Eric Cross (20:32):
How can we take what you’ve learned and then kind of spread it, so teachers have this in their toolkit, too? Like for me, I have multiple ways to be able to support reading and literacy and math and tools and sentence frames. And my students who have special learning plans, I have a have a lot of tool sets for that. I wanna build my tool sets for this other area for my students who want to continue, who wanna run, or go beyond, or even stretch themselves. I think we need to take some of the things that you’re doing and not make them kind of like this exclusive group, but also let’s share it with everyone, ’cause if everybody can access it—

Janis Lodge (21:03):
I agree.

Eric Cross (21:03):
—we might see a lot more potential or a lot more opportunities for students who might not otherwise have them.

Janis Lodge (21:08):
And one thing: My school, I’m really proud to say that my principal has seen that. You know, he’s like, “Well why are we just keeping this in the GATE classroom?” So he’s working on getting all of our teachers certified.

Eric Cross (21:19):
No, I love what you’re doing and your principal sounds, sounds awesome for doing that and recognizing that this can benefit more students than just the ones who, you know, pass the Raisin Test, I think it’s what it was called when I was taking it, or whatever it is back then.

Janis Lodge (21:31):
Exactly.

Eric Cross (21:32):
We’ve talked about project-based learning, the GATE classroom…I kind of wanna come back to you as we wrap up. Thinking about, like, the jobs that you and I do, and the people that listen to this podcast, we have one of the few jobs that people remember us for a lifetime. And I wanna ask you, who was someone that was maybe inspirational in your educational career, that inspired you, or is maybe one of the most memorable? You might have several…but who is someone that was memorable to you in your career, and why? Why were they memorable to you?

Janis Lodge (22:02):
Yeah. Well, obviously, when I was younger, I was definitely inspired by all my teachers. The fact that I turned my bedroom into a classroom…I just was just in awe of this profession. But I think one that really resonated with me was my junior year in high school. I was taking a newspaper class and the teacher was Mrs. Kavanaugh, and she really taught us everything from writing the articles to the editing, to putting the pages together. And I remember in that class I was working on this program called QuarkXPress. I don’t even know if it exists anymore. But I was just fascinated with putting all these pieces together that we’d worked on for so long and getting the articles, picking the pictures, the illustrations and the titles. And I remember her looking at me saying, “You really enjoy this, don’t you?” And I said, “Yeah.” And she said, “Well, I have a computer graphics elective class that you should take next year.” And I thought, “OK, I’d love to do this, this opportunity to expand my knowledge and my skills.” So because of that, I took the computer graphics class the next year and I just remember throughout the whole time, she was just constantly encouraging me and acknowledging my skills. And I find myself doing that as a teacher as well. ‘Cause that really resonated with me. And it’s funny, this summer I was going through some boxes of some old stuff from high school, and I found this handout that I had made, because I remember my senior year of high school, she said, “Janis, you know what? You’re doing such a great job; we have these new, incoming students coming into the newspaper class, and I’d love for you to actually teach them how to do this pagination on this QuarkXPress program. I want you to put something together and actually teach it to them.” I thought, “Wow, she believes in me that much that she’s gonna let me teach this to the incoming students.” But I think my takeaway from that was that she gave me the opportunity to take those skills and actually do something with them, to apply them right away.

Eric Cross (23:53):
Mrs. Kavanaugh. Miss Kavanaugh. Shout-out to Miss Kavanaugh. As you told that story, I heard you as a teacher because I’m hearing she’s applying these GATE strategies in that situation. That’s what that’s what I heard.

Janis Lodge (24:08):
Yeah, absolutely.

Eric Cross (24:09):
She personalized this learning. She created a specialized opportunity. You presented to a real audience that was authentic. It had this personalization in it and this rigor and this challenge and it made a huge impact. And it’s just amazing to listen to you and hear this come full-circle, and now you’re doing this with little ones. And I just wanna thank you for your time in doing the interview, sharing your story with how you became a teacher, your students, the projects that you do. And just like so many teachers, going the extra mile for your kids and bringing in these really important 21st century skills; they’re gonna be so much better off for it. And I know it makes my job easier when I get them in the classroom, so thank you.

Janis Lodge (24:49):
Yeah. Well, thank you for the opportunity.

Eric Cross (24:51):
My pleasure. Thanks so much for listening and we wanna hear more about you and the educators who inspire you. You can nominate them as a future guest on Science Connections by emailing STEM@amplify.com. That’s S -T-E-M at amplify dot com. And be sure to click subscribe, wherever you listen to podcasts, and join our Facebook group, Science Connections: The Community. Until next time.

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What Janis Lodge says about science

“The reward of having kids feel like they accomplished something and take ownership is such an opportunity [with project-based learning] that I have to run with it. Being inspired by the potential outcomes of what could happen is what made me take that risk.”

– Janice Lodge

3rd Grade Teacher, De Portola Elementary

Meet the guest

Janis Lodge is a third grade teacher in Orange County, California. Her career in education started six years ago when she decided to follow her passion of making a positive difference in the lives of young scholars. Prior to teaching, Janis lived in Maui, Hawaii for seven years, working in the field of graphic design, marketing, and hospitality. She has found that her interest in innovation, project-based learning, and inquiry-driven exploration has helped shape her into the educator she is today. STEAM is integrated regularly into her classroom, and her students continually develop 21st century skills through a variety of unique projects. ​​Janis is also a PAL (Peer Assistance Leadership) Advisor for her school, where she helps young leaders (4th-6th graders) cultivate their leadership skills and empowers them to make a positive difference in their school and community. Janis was recently awarded the Orange County Council for the Gifted & Talented Education Classroom Grant, which will provide an extension to the third grade Amplify Science Unit: Environments and Survival.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

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S1-01: The journey from student to SpaceX engineer: Juan Vivas

Illustration of Earth with text about a podcast episode featuring Juan Vivas, discussing the journey from student to SpaceX engineer. Includes a photo of a smiling person in a suit.

In this episode, we join Eric Cross as he talks to supply chain engineer Juan Vivas of SpaceX about his experiences growing up as a Latino in STEM. Juan shares his story of moving to the United States to study engineering and becoming successful in his career as a scientist. Juan openly discusses the experiences that made a difference in his life and the teachers that inspired him along the way. He also shares his experience as an engineer in different fields, as well as what it’s like to work in the supply chain during COVID.

Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

Download Transcript

Juan Vivas (00:00):

But to me, based on my experience so far, I think the best way to put it: An engineer is a technical problem-solver.

Eric Cross (00:28):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. My guest today is Juan Vivas. Juan is a supply chain engineer for SpaceX. His career in STEM has pivoted from chemical engineering to working on foods like Cinnamon Toast Crunch to his current role at SpaceX, where he’s responsible for his work on Starlink, a technology that uses low-orbit satellites to provide internet access across the world. In this episode, Juan shares his story of how he became an engineer and how a thoughtful teacher used robotics to inspire him. I hope you enjoy this great conversation with Juan Vivas. Juan, thanks for being here.

Juan Vivas (01:14):

Yeah, yeah, of course! Super-excited to be here.

Eric Cross (01:19):

Hey, and starting off, I kind of like to ask your origin story. We were talking earlier about Marvel, and your journey of one working for…what I consider the closest thing that we have to SHIELD in the Marvel stories is SpaceX. Like with my own students, we talk about SpaceX like it’s a fictional thing, and we watch the rocket launches together and we watch the recovery and it’s so cool.

Juan Vivas (01:45):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (01:46):

And so when I knew that we were gonna be able to talk to you, I was excited. Like, I felt like I was a kid.

Juan Vivas (01:51):

<Laugh>

Eric Cross (01:51):

So I’d love to hear your origin story of you ultimately landing at SpaceX. And begin wherever kind of seems most natural to you.

Juan Vivas (01:59):

Yeah, yeah, of course. You know, I wasn’t one of those kids at from a young age I said “Oh, I’m gonna be an engineer.” Right? “I want to go and build all these things.” Where I grew up, and the social circle that I had, a lot of people were like doctors or lawyers. Just figured, you know, I’ll go to med school and go down the same path that 90% of like everyone else was gonna take. But in high school, I actually got into robotics. And, kind of like I mentioned, I wanted to do med school, that is what I figured I would end up doing. And then I got into robotics in high school. And I think that was what really kind of like changed my perspective of what I wanted to do, because basically these competitions were just—it was full-on driven by students. So we designed, programmed, and manufactured, like, the entire robot itself. And so through that I ended up doing a summer engineering program at the University of Maryland, the summer before going into my senior year in high school. And there we worked on a competition with underwater robots. And so we spent the entire summer, kind of similar scenario, designing a robot, manufacturing it, programming it. And then in the end it was like a competition in the buoyancy tank with different teams. And, you know, I think one thing that was really neat about that experience is that I got to hear Dr. John C. Mathers, who is a Nobel Prize physicist, speak to us in a room with, like, only 10 high school students. And just hearing his experience of where he started and the accomplishment that he’s been able to do, down in the STEM path, was really neat. And that summer was my final decision that I’m “OK, I know I want to be an engineer.” What’s interesting is I ended up choosing chemical engineering, instead of mechanical, which a lot of people, you know, based on all the experience that led me up to be an engineer, they asked me why I didn’t choose mechanical engineering. And I think one of the reasons why I chose chemical engineering is it’s very process-based. So one thing needs to happen, and there’s different inputs to that one step, and that step has an end-to-end reaction to it, right? So certain things need to happen in step one in order for step two to occur. And however the inputs happen in step one, it’s gonna affect the rest of the process. Honestly, very different than what I thought it was really gonna be. But what’s neat about chemical engineering is that it’s one of the most versatile engineering majors that you can have. Chemical engineering, because you work with a lot of process bases. Everything has a process, right? Everything needs to start with step one, and with, you know, step 10, whatever. And it’s all about optimization and improvement along those processes. So you can really take chemical engineering principles and apply ’em to different areas of a career, which is essentially the experience that I had in college. I had three internships with Dow Chemical where I did environmental health and safety, production, and supply-chain improvement. I then did research and development with Clorox. And then I did manufacturing engineering with General Mills. So really different job roles, different aspects, but same methodology applied.

Eric Cross (05:36):

I feel like there’s so much that you just said, <laugh> and I was trying to always, “I wanna ask him about that!” And in there, what I heard was there was a real pivotable, pivot moment in your life. Was the club…or was it a club, the robotics program? Or was that a class?

Juan Vivas (05:53):

You know, it was actually…it was VEX Robotics, specifically.

Eric Cross (05:56):

It was VEX! OK. Yeah, yeah. Really popular. And they still have it; I think we actually have some downstairs. So it was a club, and not necessarily a formal environment, where you were able to build. And it’s both collaborative and competitive, right? Like, there’s both aspects.

Juan Vivas (06:11):

Yep. Yep.

Eric Cross (06:11):

And, and then you had access to one of the only two facilities in the country that have these…were they buoyancy tanks?

Juan Vivas (06:20):

Buoyancy tanks, yep.

Eric Cross (06:21):

And there’s this book, Malcolm Gladwell’s Outliers, and then another similar book called Balance. It talks about how some of these innovators, like Steve Jobs and, and Bill Gates, they had access to things that other people didn’t. So, like, Bill Gates, I think at the University of Washington, had a computer that, you know, no one else did. And Jobs had one at, like, Hewlett-Packard. So it gave you this awesome headstart, where you’re able to test things in a real-life environment that kind of transfers into real-world skills. And then a few internships, so like, internships and mentors. So you had these people in the industry or people who were front-runners that were able to pour into you and give you these opportunities. And so it’s really neat to see how a program that starts as a club, kind of a competitive thing that introduced you to it and hooked you, then led to unfolding all of these opportunities that ultimately led you up to being here. And there’s one part—in looking at your LinkedIn profile, there’s a couple of really cool things that stand out. There’s a lot of cool things, but there’s two that really stood out. So one, working at SpaceX, and we’ll talk more about that, but I wanna go to General Mills and Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Because Cinnamon Toast Crunch is amazing.

Juan Vivas (07:39):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (07:39):

And you were part of the supply chain for that. In my head, I’m thinking, OK, like, what is he like responsible for? Like, getting the cinnamon and sugar?

Juan Vivas (07:51):

<Laugh>

Eric Cross (07:51):

What was, what did your job entail, when you were running that?

Juan Vivas (07:55):

There, I didn’t even know what I was gonna be doing until my first day. It was just, whatever the business need is, that’s where you’re gonna be put. So this was actually a high-priority plan for General Mills. And the production line that made Cinnamon Toast Crunch was split up into processes. So you have, they call it the process-process side, which is like literally raw materials, like making the cereal from scratch, baking it, adding the sugar, and then sending it to be packaged. And then you have the packaging-process side. so I was then placed as a packaging process lead, for the packaging side of that production line. So I was accountable for two packaging lines that packed out Cinnamon Toast Crunch. And that is where—that was actually my first real, you know, call it “real job,” like graduated college, going straight into the industry. I was a process lead for the packaging side of Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

Eric Cross (08:54):

So you went from cereal to rockets, <laugh>, which which is an amazing trajectory to have.

Juan Vivas (09:03):

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Cross (09:04):

And when you kind of mentioned, back in your story about medical school, and, you know, it’s kinda like, what you see people doing, and you’re “OK, this is what I think I wanna do.” And then we have a perception in our mind about what a certain job’s gonna be like. And then reality hits. I think a lot of—when I ask my students, “What do you wanna do?” They think, like, “lawyer!” and when they think “lawyer!” they’re like, “I’m good at arguing!” Right? And until they find—until they talk to some lawyers and they find out like what that career can look like.

Juan Vivas (09:28):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (09:28):

You’re not just in the courtroom showing off your arguing skills. But, like, an engineer, when I talk to my students about what does it mean to be an engineer, often it’s very linear. It’s “I build bridges,” or, you know, maybe cars, but you’re a supply chain engineer. And, and that’s something that I think, now more than ever, it’s probably an incredibly critical role, especially considering that all of these supply constraints. Can you—what is a supply chain engineer? And what does it look like in your day-to-day? How is engineering rolled into that?

Juan Vivas (10:03):

Yeah, yeah. I think that’s an excellent question. I, too, once thought that engineering was just “I’m gonna be actually making something physical,” and like being super engineer-y about it. But, to me, based on my experience so far, I think the best way to put it: An engineer is a technical problem solver. As a supply chain engineer, specifically right now in my role at SpaceX…you know, as you can guess, the supply chain in the entire world is crazy. There’s no raw materials anywhere, and nothing can ever get on time. And so what I work on is I help our suppliers develop processes to meet the design criteria that we set up for like a specific part. As my job as a supply chain engineer, it’s “Can I take this design and make it manufacturable?” Right? “Can I go to any supplier and can they actually make this to the tolerance that the design engineer set them to be?” Nine out of 10 cases, the answer is no, essentially, is the best high-level way to put it.

Eric Cross (11:10):

When you’re solving these problems, is it this iterative process of going back and forth? Or is it just this aha-moment when you finally figure things out? ‘Cause I imagine they’re coming up with a design; you’re going back and saying, “Can this be manufactured?” or “Can it be done?” They’re saying no 90% of the time. And then are you the one responsible for kind of iterating on this, or changing it and then going back to them and telling them, asking them, until you get a yes? Is that—

Juan Vivas (11:33):

Yep. Yep, yep. Exactly. So we go through a process called Design for Manufacturing, DFMing. And where I essentially take, you know, the design engineer’s proposal, and then I have conversations with the suppliers, and then, that’s where the iteration begins. Where we go back and forth, back and forth, until we kind of meet in the middle to have something that can be manufacturable. Most of the times, in my experience, suppliers will always tell you no, just because they always want something that is manufactured really easily. And so you just gotta learn through experience. Like, when are they actually telling you something that’s a fact, versus when they’re just trying to you know, get out of a tolerance, or that “all right, all right, they mentioned that would just like make their jobs a little bit more difficult.”

Eric Cross (12:17):

So I’m hearing like there’s soft skills that are woven into the technical skills that you also need to be able to have.

Juan Vivas (12:23):

Oh, yes, absolutely. Yeah. I think, you know, as an engineer—and this is something, again, that I feel like you can only learn through experience—you’re gonna see that it’s not just you working to solve this one problem. Especially for a supply chain engineer. You’re talking with marketing; you’re talking with an industrial design team; you’re talking with logistics; you’re talking with procurement, materials management—just a whole set of people that don’t necessarily have technical background. Right? So sometimes, depending on the audience that I’m targeting, I’m always very, very peculiar on what is my target audience, right? How can I—how deep in my technical knowledge do I need to go? Because if I just, you know, talk straight Engineer, they either don’t care or they’re gonna be really confused about what I’m saying. So there is a stronghold of soft skills that definitely go into engineering, which I think are really important to communicate, you know, to, let’s say, students that are really interested in engineering. So you can be extremely smart and intelligent and really good at problem-solving, but if you don’t have those soft skills that you apply in the real world—’cause in the real world, you’re never only gonna be working with engineers, no matter like where you’re at—so having those soft skills to be able to manage with different backgrounds and different sort of people and different ways of thinking, it’s, I feel, really critical, for, for an engineer in the real world.

Eric Cross (13:50):

No, I think that’s a great point. It reminds me of teaching! And so many other professions where your ultimate goal is to really pour into this person in front of you and help develop them and create a sense of inquiry and wonder and personal growth and inspiration. But you’re also working within constraints and people and relationships. You know, you have your other teachers, you have parents, you have administrators, you have a district, you have communities, stakeholders. You have all of these different dynamics that you have to kind of navigate in order to ultimately help this child thrive. Versus just, like, being in the classroom: “OK, I just got <laugh>, the hundred or 200 students, just you and me. That’s it.” But that’s not the real world. And there’s this report that came out, I think Google ran it, Project Oxygen and Project Aristotle, and they asked the question, “What are the most effective traits of a good team and a manager?” And the top seven skills were all soft skills. So it is like exactly what you’re saying, where, yeah, it’s great that you have this technical aptitude, but if you’re not able to work with other people, problem-solve together, work with people of different backgrounds and perspectives, then you’re gonna run into some roadblocks. And that kind of dovetails, like, looking at things like if you looked at education from the perspective of an engineer. So you’re all about optimizing, right? Optimizing, working with what you got. When you look at education, are there any things that you would optimize to help improve the experience of students? Like, looking back, that you would fine-tune, that you think could provide better outcomes in the classroom?

Juan Vivas (15:28):

You know, I feel…I don’t know. Obviously I’m not a teacher. And I’m sure teachers just have so much stuff going on. But I think just like, finding…giving a chance to those students that you see a lot of potential in and really taking the time to mold them. You know, I did have a teacher who was able to mold me and give me that kind of one-on-one personal experience, right? I think honestly to me it just comes down to mentorship, and motivating students on what, you know, they’re passionate for. Like, putting them in front of engineers, right? Like finding engineers to come volunteer and explain to them. I genuinely believe it just takes one spark to really get a student on a trajectory where they can make an impact in the future. So to me, it comes down to, really, exposure. How much are you really exposing your students to…you know what, something I’ve learned, when I joined SpaceX, is that Elon doesn’t believe—well, you know, there there’s a lot of things that Elon believes and not believes in; there’s a whole different type of conversation!—but he doesn’t think that you can just take a curriculum, let’s say, and just apply it massively to everyone and expect like everyone to be it. That’s just naturally not how it works, right? Students learn at different paces; they have different sort of interests. This is actually why he created his own school for his kids in LA, called Ad Astra. You know, if you take that mentality, what that school is doing is that they’re working at the students’ pace and at the student’s interests, right? And I actually have a coworker who has his kids in that school. And I mean, these are one of the most brilliant kids I’ve ever known. Like, they are taking differential equations in the eighth grade. And I didn’t know what differential equations was until I was in college already and they told me, “This is a class you have to take.” <Laugh>. But it’s finding that crossway where, where is the curiosity of the student? What are they really interested in? and exposing them to that.

Eric Cross (17:51):

Yeah. And what I’m hearing of that is, in teacher-speak, a lot of personalized learning. Like you were talking about…is it Ad Astra?

Juan Vivas (17:59):

Ad Astra? Yep.

Eric Cross (18:01):

Ad Astra. You know, every student learns in their own way and they develop knowledge in their own way. And being able to personalize learning according to the students’ abilities and needs, and then accelerate or slow down, really produces some amazing effects. I know this is something that we as teachers try to do with the classroom. Scaling it is the challenge. But it’s great because even with people who are in charge of policy or people who have decision-making ability, hearing people from the top down saying, “Hey, look, this is what worked for me. This is how I was able to become successful. I had a teacher that was able to be a mentor to me because they knew me, they had a relationship with me, they were able to tap into my passions and use those passions to drive me to do or put me in programs that I might not have known about because they, they knew who I was.” And it’s not one-size-fits-all for everyone. So having—maybe it’s curriculum or learning experiences that are kind of modular, where students are able to maybe try on different things and get that exposure, I’m a big, big believer, like you are, in mentorship. That was a huge, huge thing in my life. Having mentors. It’s the reason why I became a science teacher. In seventh grade, I had a mentor who had us doing college-level science, you know, at UC San Diego. And it completely changed the trajectory of my life, in a direction that I wouldn’t have had without him. So I think that’s great. And it’s something that we as teachers would appreciate hearing. Going back to what you said…earlier you said your wife is a supply chain engineer as well. And so that means that there’s two people who are process-minded in the household. And this is kind of a lighter question, but I gotta wonder, do you have the most optimized flow for grocery shopping? <Laugh> Because…

Juan Vivas (19:49):

Yeah, I think we don’t spend more than like 20 minutes at a grocery store. Mind you, we only shop at Trader Joe’s and we have a very specific list before going in. And if you ever shop at Trader Joe’s, you just know where everything is ’cause it’s always there and it’s small, right? But yeah, like we’re, we’re in and out in like 15, 20 minutes. It’s great.

Eric Cross (20:11):

I love it. I love it. I feel like I’m that way by design. I go in with a purpose and this is exactly what I want. I know where the cookie butter is, <laugh>, I know where my coffee is, and then, OK, I’m in and out. Apple Pay or whatever I’m using. And then we’re good to go. Do you think…so as someone listening to this or some people even just becoming aware of supply chain engineering, what advice would you give someone that’s interested in pursuing this career path? If you maybe reverse-engineered your process, knowing what you know now, you were gonna give advice, you were that mentor, what are just some kind of tips or ideas or thoughts or trajectories that you’d think that they should aim for? I’m assuming like robotics….

Juan Vivas (20:56):

Yeah. You know, I think I would say definitely finding some sort of program that exposes you to a lot of things that you won’t be exposed to, like on a day-to-day basis, or something that you just can’t be exposed to naturally at school. And mentorship, honestly. I was born in Colombia and my parents were both—they’re still both professionals, but they were both professionals in Colombia. And when we moved to this country, this was like December of 1999. My parents started from scratch, and so they didn’t really grow up in the States, right? So when it was my time to go to college and do all of this stuff, it was just like me on my own figuring this stuff out. And, you know, they definitely made some mistakes when it came to college applications and whatnot. But once I was in college, I knew that the best way for my success was gonna be through mentorship. And that’s when I joined the, Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers, which is a nationwide organization. And each college, well, most college campuses, have their own chapter. In joining that, I was exposed to resume workshops, mock interviews—basically how do you even talk to a recruiter? Which is so critical, right? And personally that that organization was really what molded my actual professional career.

Eric Cross (22:19):

There’s this theme that I’m hearing, kind of weaving through this. And in addition to—as we’re talking about STEM and technical skills, in addition to that, there’s this thread that I’m receiving of…being able to form relationships with other people, for our students, is an important skill to teach and should be taught explicitly. Which isn’t…it’s not really a curriculum, right? Like, you don’t get tested on your ability to….conflict resolution or how to write an email or how to develop a relationship. And then the other part in I think what you just said is the aspect of community. Through this organization, you learned kind of some of these hidden rules, maybe I would call it.

Juan Vivas (23:04):

Yep.

Eric Cross (23:04):

It’s not that you didn’t have the…you had the aptitude. You had the drive. But there were these kind of hidden rules, and from moving to the US, you needed a community to be able to show you, so that you can kind of go through the proper steps.

Juan Vivas (23:16):

Exactly.

Eric Cross (23:17):

And so that created a lot of value for you.

Juan Vivas (23:19):

Yep.

Eric Cross (23:20):

Well, the last question that I have is, is just kind of a wondering. You have this awesome story, and the story continues to unfold. I gotta say, <laugh> I’m gonna be following your LinkedIn profile, because I think you just have kind of the coolest trajectory of going from, you know, General Mills, working in chemical engineering, and then ultimately it’s SpaceX. And every time I see the rocket taking off and landing, I’m gonna be thinking, thinking about you. So cool!

Juan Vivas (23:47):

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Cross (23:49):

And personally, I have a hope that one day, one of my students will be at a company, you know, like SpaceX or Tesla or wherever, and one day I get to interview them and talk to them and see what they say. But the last question I want to ask is, is there, is there a teacher who inspired you, or a memorable experience that you have that made an impact on you?

Juan Vivas (24:16):

Yeah, yeah, of course. It was kind of you know, middle school going into high school. The way my school worked, everything was divided from pre-kindergarten, whatever, first to sixth grade, and then seventh grade to 12th grade. So I had a high school science teacher, Ms. Brown, Ms. Velda Brown, who, came from a small little island town on the east coast of Canada. Somehow landed, in the high school that I went to, to teach science. Going back to the beginning of the story where I mentioned that I figured whatever, I’ll go to med school. I played soccer, basketball, and, you know, I said, “I’ll figure it out once I graduate.” It might have been like life science in the eighth grade or something like that. But then she went on to teach me chemistry and physics as well. And when I was in the 10th grade, she approached me and she asked me if I wanted to join the robotics club. And I remember saying robotics? I don’t know. You know, naturally, in school, it’s different sorts of crowds: people that play sports and people that are like in like STEM clubs or whatever. And I was, “Ah, I don’t know; I don’t know how I feel about robotics; not really my thing….” But somehow she convinced me to join robotics. It’s me, coming into this group of kids that already knew each other, and they were all working on robotics. And I’m, “Yeah, I mean, I guess I’m just here to try this thing out.” It was a thing where we met every single Saturday at like seven in the morning. And there were times where I literally had to choose, “Do I go to like a soccer game or do I go to you help my team with robotics?” And I completely loved it. Like, I fell in love with the aspect of building something from scratch, and just making it operative. And she ended up just being a huge mentor for me in high school, actually. With her, with the help of her, I ended up opening the robotics club at my school. And before I left, we opened it up to middle schoolers. And then, you know, later, years later down the road when I was in college, I found out that it was now a whole-school thing. So there was an elementary robotics club at the school, the middle school one, and then the high school one were still a thing like years after I left. And that was like just so amazing to hear. But yeah, it was Ms. Velda Brown, my high school science teacher, that really took her time to mold me and get me into robotics, and really mentor me. And honestly, I’m sure you as teachers, you guys probably hear about it a lot, but you can have a lot of power in shaping a kid by just telling—believing in them, right? She believed in me so much that I would go on to be a successful engineer. And I’m. “OK, yeah, yeah, you’re just saying it.” But she spoke life into her students up to this day. I still speak about it with my wife, and when I’m in conversations about this, that if it wasn’t for my high school science teacher, I would not—well, no, I would probably not be an engineer right now.

Eric Cross (27:38):

Wow. Shout out to Ms. Velda Brown <laugh>. Would you say she spoke…I think one thing that just resonated with me is when you said she “spoke life” into you.

Juan Vivas (27:46):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (27:46):

That was really powerful. And I think we as teachers have that power and we don’t realize it. Because, you know, we get so we’re so familiar and living day-to-day, but we do have the power of life, speaking life, into our young people. And, yeah, that was—

Juan Vivas (28:03):

Absolutely, yeah. You know, I think obviously people grew up with different backgrounds, different communities, life situations, right? So imagine having like a student that is similar in that environment and then they just hear someone at their school, like, “Hey, you’re really good at this. why don’t you consider doing this?” And that’s when I feel teachers have that power. Where like they don’t necessarily know the background, but they can make that opportunity, or make that decision in the moment, to really shape a student’s life.

Eric Cross (28:37):

And we need to hear that. And I think, I hope that other teachers listening to this will be reminded that many times we don’t get to reap the harvest. We don’t get to see the <laugh> Juan Vivases at SpaceX. They just kind of go, and they disappear, and we hope for the best, and we get a new group. But every once in a while they come back, and we get to see what our watering or seed-planting was able to produce. And so, just know that you sharing your story for educators, and for definitely Ms. Brown, makes a huge difference and is a huge encouragement. So.

Juan Vivas (29:11):

You know, I think we touched on earlier, you know, how do I end up going from cereal to rockets, right? And I think it ties along with what I mentioned earlier of just taking—as an engineer, you’re really a critical problem solver, right? And you think that methodology. And if you find a way, you can apply it to different sectors. When I was doing a lot of like the packaging process stuff at General Mills, being a lead on a high-volume manufacturing line, what I do for SpaceX specifically, right now, I’m actually on the Starlink project. So if you’re up to date with Starlink, it’s, it’s essentially high reliable, fast internet that we’re providing to areas where usually people don’t have access to internet, right? Or maybe they do, but it’s extremely expensive. Because to an internet provider company, the benefit is not there, if they extend an entire internet fiber line out to their place because it’s only directed to them, right? So that’s, that’s essentially what Starlink is trying to solve. And this is the first time that SpaceX is facing a consumer packaging scenario. Before it was just rockets. And now they’re selling a product to consumers. They had never done that before, especially in a high-volume manufacturing setting. And so I am the supplier development engineer for all the consumer-facing packaging for the Starlink product itself. And that’s essentially how all those thoughts connected, where I had this experience coming from General Mills and packaging high-volume manufacturing. And then when Starlink started, they’re all, “Right, well, who knows anything about packaging?” Right? “We know so much about rockets, we need someone with this technical background.” And that’s essentially how I bridge over to SpaceX.

Eric Cross (31:11):

And so while you’re working at SpaceX, you’re working on Starlink, which I know you mentioned that—you said that it’s providing internet globally, which in and of itself, we—especially those of us that live in major cities—we kind of take for granted. Internet is like a utility. But we don’t maybe realize that in many parts of the world, internet is not reliable or even accessible.

Juan Vivas (31:33):

Right. Right.

Eric Cross (31:34):

I see every once in a while, I think, the StarlinK satellites sometimes are visible?

Juan Vivas (31:38):

Yep.

Eric Cross (31:39):

Low orbit?

Juan Vivas (31:39):

Yeah. Yeah. You can go—they’ll kind of be like a little train of bright stars that move along together. Yep.

Eric Cross (31:46):

And that must—that must feel…I mean, we all have jobs and we’re all doing different things, but you’re working on a project and you’re engineering something that actually can provide a lot of opportunities or close a gap in some parts of the world where they don’t have access to internet. They’re gonna be able to have access and be connected all over. I dunno, the word would be “existential.” Existential value. Like, what you’re doing is actually providing a service for people. Humanity. Like, addressing a critical need in many, many places around the world.

Juan Vivas (32:26):

Yeah. We’ve had stories where we have sent Starlink kids to a small school in a village in rural Chile, right in South America. And for the first time ever, they’ve had internet. We have supported disaster relief in Europe. I think this past summer, Europe had really bad floods. We sent Starlink kits out there. You know, the vision of working at an Elon Musk company and SpaceX and Starlink—this is all stuff that is being done for the first time in history. We have never, ever done anything like this before until now. And to be able to provide those that don’t have the access to—to your point, it’s kind of wild, right? Like we, we just take it for granted. “Oh yeah, I just have internet. Let me log on.” There are people on Earth right now that have never been on the internet. Or don’t even know what the internet is. And that’s essentially the, the gap that Startlink is starting to close.

Eric Cross (33:26):

Yeah. We think about that while my students are doing TikTok dances. <Laugh> And there are people who, you know, never, never been connected. And, it kind of makes me more like, just inside, if I can ask: What’s it like working at SpaceX? I showed my students what it’s like working at some of the Silicon Valley companies. ‘Cause just to show them there’s slides and food and, you know, they kind developed this ecosystem inside so that it’s really kind of homey to kind of keep you there, you know. When you’re working and there’s bikes and things like that. And that’s a very Silicon Valley type of thing. But, you know, in listening to you talk about SpaceX and Elon, you know, you’re with a really visionary kind of company, and when I hear you talk about it, there’s I can hear this passion, this, “we’re doing something.” Is that culture, like, pervasive everywhere? Are you around folks that kind of are on that same wavelength? Because I definitely get it from you as you talk about what you do.

Juan Vivas (34:28):

Yeah, yeah. Definitely. I think, as an engineer, you know, going to SpaceX and working at SpaceX, it’s essentially—personally, I believe right now in the US it’s like the mecca of engineering, right? Like, it is where engineering in this most, you know, shape and manner, it’s being applied. I think what’s really interesting is that the way that Elon looks at it is just iterate, and iterate fast, right? Like, fail and fail fast. I think as an engineer, you always want to have things perfect, right? And so you spend a lot of time in making a decision or investigating something or whatever. And working at SpaceX is the complete opposite. It’s just you know, “Assume, state your assumptions—like, what are you assuming right now? What are the risk at it? And just make a decision and then see what the result is.” You know, so it’s an environment where you learn, really quick.

Eric Cross (35:28):

You said something that I think was powerful and I hope, I think <laugh>, this is definitely, I’m gonna get a clip of this <laugh> of you saying it. Because it speaks directly to, I think, what a lot of students struggle with in the classroom, is there’s this competition or feeling that you always need to be right. And you need to be right the first try, on the first time. And a lot of times it’s because students will compare themselves to each other, or there’s a tremendous amount of pressure to be successful. But you said, “Fail and fail fast, iterate, state your assumptions.” And it sounds like this critical part of being an engineer or in what you do, like there’s no room for ego or attaching your identity or your sense of value or worth or ability to whether you’re able to solve a problem in the first try.

Juan Vivas (36:13):

Yep.

Eric Cross (36:14):

Like, you have to be OK with the cycle, is kind of what I’m hearing from you. Is that, is that right?

Juan Vivas (36:19):

Yep. Exactly. It only took six months to develop the product from scratch and launch it to the public, which is insane. Nowhere in the world will any company ever iterate that fast and come up with a brand-new project. But it’s because of that mentality—like you’re saying, it’s not about like just trying to make it perfect and have all this information. And I think Elon has learned this personally, you know, through Tesla and the beginning of SpaceX. It’s, “I can wait to have all this information, and most likely I’m still gonna be wrong after I make the decision.” So it’s, “Might as well take the risk, do the decision, and then just see where you learn from it, right?” And then you keep applying that, applying that. So it’s like you iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate until you get what you want.

Eric Cross (37:00):

I think this is even, like, great advice. I’m taking this personally because I get paralysis by analysis <laugh>.

Juan Vivas (37:06):

Yep.

Eric Cross (37:07):

You know, I’ll research something to death but then not actually execute. Like, I need to make a decision and do it and then course-correct along the way. Somebody once told me it’s a lot easier to turn a moving car than it is a car that’s sitting still. And so as you’re kind of flowing, you’re just making these adjustments along the way until you end up on the path that you want to be. So I think that there’s so many gems in the things that you’re saying right now. What I’m thinking through the lens of my seventh graders that want to work in any STEM field—I mean, really, any field in general, but especially engineering, especially the STEM fields—knowing that, pick it, make a decision, move forward, and then course-correct along the way. That’s what science looks like in the real world.

Juan Vivas (37:49):

Yep. Exactly. Yep. And definitely most important—and I feel like this is sometimes where, not necessarily education in general, but it’s just, we want students to, “OK, you need to get it right the perfect time, right?” But it’s like, every student is gonna think differently. A student is gonna take a different assumption based on their background and experiences. And I mean, you know, we can go a lot deeper in that, but the way a student is shaped, they’re gonna take certain assumptions. So that’s where it gets interesting. OK, why are you assuming that? Where’s your thought process in this?

Eric Cross (38:25):

And we all come from different backgrounds and mindsets and filters and biases that cause us to look at something a certain way. And it’s not just like calling it out, just going, “Hey look, this is what it is.” Like autopsy without blame, this is what I’m working with. Let’s discuss it openly. Right? And if we started that process earlier, you know, younger, in classrooms, we can de-stigmatize the right answer being the best answer more, as opposed to focusing on process as opposed to outcome. And then you kinda get used to wanting to go through the process. I look at it like video games and I talk to my students. I say, “You know, you don’t pick up a video game that’s brand-new and then play it and then you die once and you’re ‘Ah, I’m never gonna play this game again.’ You know, it just doesn’t work that way. You’re going through this iterative process, and no matter what you play, you’re trying things differently. You’re data collecting. And then you’re making new decisions based on the data that you collected.” And for some of my kids, they’ll just raise their hands, say, “No, I just get mad and throw the controller across the room.” <Laugh> But I go, “Yeah, and then you’ll try it again.”

Juan Vivas (39:33):

The best way to know how not to do something is to fail. And so you already…I mean, what is that famous quote? I think that’s why Thomas Edison’s, “Oh, I, did not fail 99 times. Right? I only found 99 times…” I mean, that is that is true. And I feel like at work in a SpaceX, that is something that probably the core of it comes from there. It’s you know, any failure, quote unquote, that you may take it as a failure, it’s really not. You’re just “OK, we, we tried that. It didn’t work. Like what are we gonna do next?” So it’s just like taking that learning and like moving off with it quickly.

Eric Cross (40:09):

I heard a couple of teachers say, “Things fail: First Attempt In Learning: F A I L.” And then another teacher, one of my mentor teachers, she said, “There’s no such thing as failure, just data, in science.”

Juan Vivas (40:20):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Exactly. Yep.

Eric Cross (40:23):

And so I’ve always taken that to heart. And I share that with my own students, just, “A ‘no,’ a lot of times, will tell you more information than a ‘yes.’” ‘Cause if something works in the first try, you may not exactly know why it worked. It just did.

Juan Vivas (40:34):

Yeah. Yep.

Eric Cross (40:37):

So yeah. Well, I went on your time, brother. Dude. <laugh>. The time flew. It was…

Juan Vivas (40:46):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (40:47):

There were so many things I was trying to write out as you were talking, that I just felt like, “This guy is sharing so many gems!” But yeah, I want to thank you for taking time outta your day and for sharing that information for your passion for what you do. And, I don’t know, I think that students and teachers that listen to this will get an insight from a perspective that really matters. ‘Cause ultimately we’re, we’re trying to really prepare our students for real life. Maybe I’ll email you privately if I order a Tesla, if you can move me higher up the Cybertruck line. <laugh>

Juan Vivas (41:22):

Yeah. No promises.

Eric Cross (41:24):

<laugh>

Juan Vivas (41:25):

Yeah. No, I appreciate you guys having me, having me here, and be able to speak on my experience. And hopefully it sparks a couple, one, even if it’s just one teacher that will spark another student, that is already success there. So.

Eric Cross (41:42):

Well I know, I know what you said resonates with me and it fills my cup. And I’m excited. So I’m already thinking of some ideas of things that I can do, just because of this conversation, and I know other people will as well. And, again, this is Juan Vivas, who’s a supply development engineer at SpaceX. He’s worked at some amazing places. And someone who believes deeply in not only the power of the technical skills, but the heart skills, and how community makes a huge impact in his life. It made a huge impact in him ultimately becoming a scientist, and now working on a project at SpaceX, Starlink, that is going to provide access to the world, to the web. And that’ll ultimately help us solve more problems and innovate and create some solutions that will benefit everybody. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you.

Juan Vivas (42:30):

Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much, Eric. Appreciate it.

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What Juan Vivas says about engineering

“Based on my experience so far, I think the best way to put it… an engineer is a technical problem solver.”

– Juan Vivas

Supplier development engineer, SpaceX

Meet the guest

Juan Vivas is a chemical engineer currently working as a Supplier Development Engineer at SpaceX. Juan got his start at the University of Florida, where he led the Society of Hispanic Engineers (SHPE) as vice president. He’s worked for companies like Clorox, Dow Chemical, and General Mills. Juan lives in Los Angeles, California with his wife and two dogs.

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About Science Connections: The podcast

Welcome to Science Connections: The Podcast! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher.

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